Wednesday, November 3, 2010

One month till Cataclysm, time to look back at Wrath PRELUDE

With one month left to go until life as we know it (in WoW, calm down), changes forever, I thought this was a good time to look back at wrath as an expansion.
What went right, what went wrong, and why I think that Totalbiscuit is a sad man, who is only concerned about WoW, because it has a big audience, and not because he actually *cares* about the game (let alone plays it).
Luckily for me, he sees people like me complaining about him, as more traffic and more dough. Good for him.

But I am getting ahead of myself.

In order to understand why I think that Wrath was the best WoW has ever been, you need to know about me as a player. Unlike Totalbiscuit, I am a raider. In a guild.

I say unlike him, because even though he talks a lot about how raiding is great and being in a guild is even better. The guy has not raided.
Again, I am getting a little ahead of myself, but let me finish this train of thought, so we can get to the core of this: Looking at Wrath in review.
When you judge Wrath of the Lich King, as being a weak expansion with little to no great raiding content, one would assume that you have cleared said content. He has not. In fact he has hardly done anything in any of the 4 major instances. So when someone like him, claims that Wrath was a lowpoint for wow, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Because all he knows about the raid instances, is what the QQ on the forum have told him. It is kind of sad, to have your bread and butter be a game, you do not like to play all that much, and your one standout comment be that raiding is great and being in a guild is a good idea... When you are not in a guild, nor are raiding.

My point is, watch his vids for instance-beta-runs, they are fun. Do not listen to the drivel he talks about when concerning raiding. The guy does not raid. He does not know how raiding in Wrath works, because he has not raided there.
Yes I am attacking one guy, but he stands - to me- as the core problem with WoW at the moment:


People who do not know what the Fekk they are talking about, moan about stuff to make themselves popular


Just like the Greedy Goblin does not believe that any human beings are M&S, he is just doing it to stroke his ego by getting large numbers of readers. Some people need that in their life, but you should not worry about them.

Right, ranty dorf stuff out of the way, let us use this prelude well, with a schedule of what I wanted to get to.

First part: 'Judging your present, means you should know your past.' Where I go on and on about how raiding used to be. Starting with vanilla, and -depending on how long i rant- will also cover The Burning Crusade.

Second part: ' Evolving, how quests, dungeons, and raids have improved vastly'  But also how two steps forward might also mean taking 1 step backward.

Third part: 'How raiding and questing and leveling in Wrath is the best it has ever been' Get your facts straight, there have not been an expansion where the raiding, dungeons and leveling have not been better. The only thing wrong, was Blizzards super slow pace at releasing it. (and misjudging the use/difficulty of dungeons).

I guess that regular readers will know pretty much everyrthing I am going to say in the next 3 parts (and it might not become 3 posts, but only two), but this is stuff I really want to say, so... It will be said :)

63 comments:

  1. TB is TB. He IS fun to listen to but yeah, a huge grain of salt is needed and as a matter of fact I think that's the way he sees himself as well. I agree that it sounds a little silly when he whines about the lack of challenge in Wrath without ever passing Sindragosa 10 man or normal himself. He keeps blaming a couple of guys in his guild disconnecting at that encounter, but hey, the game is the same for everyone and we certainly got passed her. Not without difficulties, especially not with achievmenets and hardmodes (I have wiped more times on her than I want to think of, even the thought of her voice makes me cringe). But we did it. And if he had some more resilience and patience and raiding drive he could have done that too.
    So whenever I hear those whines I can't help thinking to myself: "OK, he thinks he's a great raider and maybe he is, but at least I got the Kingslayer title and my skeleton mount and he has neither".

    I'm looking forward to see the rest of your series!

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  2. The last dungeon i saw him do in beta, he did talk about a) how bad raiding was and b) how he was a real raider who knew raiding, and well to me that sounds awfully silly, when you know that he has not done any HM on anything other than (as I recall it) a couple in Ulduar. That is not raiding, that is PuG'ing through seeing content for casuals. Not raiding, for raiders.
    And if that is the image he is portraying of Wrath to the - lets face it- wast readership he has, it is no wonder that people who are new to the game or raiding, think that they got the short end of the stick.
    It is a needless thing to say and do, and frankly it outweighs all the good the man does, in my eyes.

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  3. The core problem with WoW at the moment is content and welfare epics - not one single guy. Vanilla and TBC were great - Wrath is a pile of shit.

    Do us a favour and stop trying to validate your "progress" in Wrath because compared to TBC it is void.

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  4. Oh dear, inc..
    :<
    *pre-emptive hugs*

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  5. Just.......don't listen to TB if he bugs you so much? Seriously...

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  6. Personally I listen to him for his sexy voice, he can say whatever he wants as long as he's stuffing that melted audible choclate to my wanton earholes.

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  7. Credibility, you have lost it.

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  8. Seriously Broheim?
    Because has not done any HM you say he is not a raider?
    Who are to tell people if they are raiders or if they are not dude?
    The points he has about raiding and how it sucks are valid.
    Oh and raiding in Wrath was bad, really, really bad. Don´t even get me started on Naxx and co. Ulduar was a brief flash of light in a world filled with darkness but thats it.

    The other raids where and are bad.

    And last but not least, I get the slight impression that you started playing with Wrath.
    If you have stop telling people its the best its ever been.

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  9. @gusor: As a matter of fact it is quite the opposite. If you had raided before wrath you would know that one of the largest problems any consistent guild faced was the lack of fresh blood. going content 3-4 tiers ahead of what everyone else not in a raiding guild could get. That led to loads of trouble with either guilds setting themselves months back in progression to gear up new players, or stealing members from other guilds. If you had played then you would have known (and if you haev played then, i guess you have forgotten). Personally i don't really care what type of gear PuGs and new players wear. As long as we can get competent players (and preferably nice people) in our raids. Wrath solved that. Plus the content where much better (4horsemen in original Naxx springs to mind as a dumb co**block)

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  10. @jaedia: ... thanks?
    @anon1: I... please try and read what I wrote.
    @anon2: well, there is that!
    @anon3: oh no, a reader who cannot even stand by his comments do not think *i* have credibility, whatever shall I do?

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  11. Followers - 4

    I can't imagine why nobody reads your blog when all you do is post blatant falsehoods with no actual research. It's pretty amusing really, let's get nitpicky.

    'HE HASN'T DONE ANY REAL RAIDING'.

    Real raiding happened during vanilla and TBC. Real raiding did not involve the nonsense of 'hard modes', bosses were just hard by default. Real raiding also involved having a choice between which instance to go to day in day out, whereas Wrath expected you to play the same instance twice, once with more bells and whistles. Boredom sets in when you are sitting in the same dungeon for nigh on a year, which you my friend have been. Let's not of course forget that your supposed raiding 'achievements' came as a result of the Icecrown buff, so let's be honest, they aren't 'real raiding' either. By the time you had started killing anything of note, myself and my guild had already unsubbed out of sheer boredom. Why? Because we recall the days when it wasn't a single dungeon per tier and you weren't in the same place day in day out to the point of mindnumbing tedium.

    Let's not even get into your nonsense which blatant misrepresents what I've said.

    I am looking forward to your 3 part series on attentionseeking and how you are morally superior to me because nobody pays attention to you.

    I just got you the most viewers you'll ever have, enjoy it while it lasts :>

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  12. Oh dear god, you except us to take you seriously when you cannot even get your facts straight? He has raided, he raided for quite a few months when ICC was released, but due to a few in the raid DC at the fight at sindragosa they never got past it. And since it didn't get fixed when they played they quit. How is that not raiding? It was even raiding when there was no ICC buff. And then we have vanilla and tbc where he also raided and cleared major parts of the content.

    You don't have to like the guy, but come on, get your facts straight, you cannot attack the guy when your facts are completely wrong. Makes you look oh so silly.

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  13. Its probably also worth mentioning he did naxx, ulduar and toc. If your blog is not trolling, then I feel very sorry for you.

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  14. Also why would anyone subscribe to wow again and go raiding after doing 10/12 without the buff? Now you have overall stronger talents, and ICC has been nerfed to do the ground, so the challenge is just not there anymore compared to what it was at ICC launch.

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  15. Oh dear. I think you'll have an invasion of TB followers coming to your place now... Probably an idea to lock the comments.

    I must say that I feel a little sad to see it happening. As you know I'm a fan of TB - and don't forget he's playing a persona on the net. It's really not the real "him" as far as I can tell.
    And at the same time I'm a fan of you and know that TB is heavily misjudging you.

    Sigh. You're both good guys and why can't you just sit down and have a pint and laugh at it? asks the pink pigtailed gnome.

    Guess it won't happen. Just lock the comments Dwism, that's my advice.

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  16. Even if TB has not done any raiding (which he has, as substantiated by Zaranazer, his podcasts which you clearly don't listen to if you're going to be running your mouth off about stuff you know nothing about, and even his armoury profile), where do you get the idea that one must have raided to be able to understand it? Have you ever made a comment about, say, a rock band sucking? Are you a pro rock musician yourself? If not, your musical criticism is just as invalid as TB's "lack of raiding experience". One need not have participated in an activity to know enough to critique it.

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  17. Larisa dear, if you put out crap on the internet, especially in a blog, it might get read. If he didn't want to take responsibility for his muck-spreading, he shouldn't blog in the first place.

    If he doesn't want feedback, then sure, lock the comments. After all, having people disagree with you is upsetting! This is what happened when I posted this link on my Twitter, where my more sane followers are... a fraction of whom would come here if it was posted on my Youtube page.

    Fact is, if you are going to talk shit about someone on the internet, be prepared for the consequences of that action, ESPECIALLY when your argument is based on namby-pamby subjective nonsense.

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  18. Ok so you don't like totalbiscuit, I'm not crazy about him any more but you can't really deny his skill as a broadcaster or blogger, whereas I'm questioning yours seeing as I'm having trouble finding your 'review' of wrath in this part of the article. Only 2 parts you say? Better make it 3 as this was a somewhat wasted immature attack on a bigger fish backed up with very little fact.

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  19. Sad really, you make good points, you don't agree with TB (thats totally OK), and yet you stoop to calling him sad, and making it personal.
    Thats just not the way to do it. I don't agree with him as well, but I get what he is saying in general, and I can totally respect his viewpoint, that does not make him sad in any way.

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  20. Really guy, your calling someone who constantly puts out quality information and entertainment sad. What do you do? Sounds like someone is jealous.

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  21. @pj zander: I'm not sure I understand your first part. But you did well im repeating what all the forum complainers are saying, so thats good.
    I sense that this is the first of my posts you have read. While my Dk has only raided in wrath, I do have a priest alt (former main) that has cleared all content bar two: c'thun and half of the old Naxx.
    There are things that where bad about the raids on wrath, nothing is ever perfect, but if you compare it -overall- to the content in both Vanilla and TBC, you will find that both in complexity and in hardness, neither will stand up to wrath.

    But this is just a prelude, I'll get to wraths shortcommings soon. But I somehow doubt you will continue reading this. It is - after all - more fun to read blogs with people who do not try and reason with you or that you agree with.

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  22. @Totalbiscuit: I'm not sure how closely you follow Dwism, but he has a record for being a bit controversial and edgy in the way he puts his words. He's a grumpy old bastard, just like you. And I happen like him, even if we sometimes disagree about things. You just have to take him with a grain of salt. Just like you should take TB with a grain of salt, not getting infuriated and overly upset over things that are said in an ambition to entertain, not always 100 percent seriously.
    Oh well. I'll give up and back out of this. Just clash together and get over with it while I'm looking in another direction, since I like you both.

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  23. Let's be honest here, this guy claims I am 'not a raider', has not even the slightest notion as to what I've done in the past (because he hasn't done his research) and yet all he's doing right now and has been doing for a while is nerfed to the ground content. 'HE'S HARDLY DONE ANYTHING IN WRATH', he's done pretty much everything in Wrath.

    BUT BUT... HARDMODES

    are boring, get that into your head. By the time you get there, the willingness to go back into the same dungeon for the 2359823598th time to do a jacked-up version of the original fight that Blizzard somehow thinks makes up for the constant nerfs and nonsense of normalmodes, is absolutely unenthusing in any way. Hardmodes are a gigantic failure, they are an excuse to release less content 'because we have hardmodes, you have something to do!'.

    Yes, if I so desired, I could play a game repeatedly on harder difficulty levels, but that doesn't give it replay value, especially when my first playthrough of the game, in which I see the majority of the content, is actually boring. I am less willing to go back and do it again after that, in order to see the 'real version'. Hardmodes and the philosophy that came with them of the 2 stratified, binary states of the playerbase (leaving out the majority stuck in the middle) has been the biggest disaster in raid design of all time, combined with the ridiculous badge system. Anyone who thinks they can defend it, after the guilds that matter (the REAALLLL RAAIDDERRRSS, ie. Ensidia, For the Horde, Paragon etc) have all come out and said in interviews and blogs that they think the Wrath design is flawed to the core, either has no frame of reference for comparison because he hasn't done preceding content at the time it mattered, or is deluded.

    But yeah let's attack TotalBiscuit because he's the root of the problem and doesn't care about anything.

    Let's point out the one final piece of hypocrisy in this guy's puzzle.

    "People who do not know what the Fekk they are talking about, moan about stuff to make themselves popular."

    Yes, exactly, you do. If you don't mind, I've got work to do and a game to make better. You've had enough of my time already.

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  24. And what does TB call Dwism on twitter = "A Retard" thats not very nice, can't take any criticism? used to enjoy watching TB videos, but when someone disagreed or said anything about him, he'd send his army of followers to a forum/blog to attack the author. Again he's done it here.

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  25. TB was in a very established raiding TBC guild. He raided with the best. Just listen at some of his old work. Why do you think he's so popular?

    Shows how much you know, so stfu and get a fucking clue before you post nonsense.

    To end; you should shut down this blog, it's a complete farce. Your views are not wanted by the general public, you should see this much from the comments.

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  26. Well, you know..I don't have to be sick to know it sucks...

    So I saw TOC, it sucked, I didn't raid TOC. The few times I've done the raid, more for reasons of completion, have prooved, this raid is the lamest duck blizz has ever introduced into the big pool of raids.

    So please, don't be too proud of having raided every sad bit of rubbish and don't dismiss the critical view of somebody who wishes to have better raids, that don't suck after 1-2 visits.

    Just don't.

    (sry for spelling errors or bad language, since I am not English. I appologize for every mistake so far)

    And being a critcizing person myself, i do not agree with everything TB says, but in some crucial points he is just right and if you don't like that, well then just sod of.

    Thanks, TB for pointing out how stupid and repetitive Hardmodes are most of the time, especially in ICC. My thought as I saw HMs: THAT should have been the boss. Normal mode = Trainig mode imho...oO

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  27. @tb and lar: Don't worry I had an idea that some of my regular readers would disagree, so I don't mind comments.
    Yes thank you TB for getting me glorious readers, I can look myself in the mirror and feel proud again.
    If you talk about real raiding, I guess they call it glory days for a reason. You only remember the glory part, not the fact that in most vanilla instances, only half your raid had to actually know what was going on in order to clear it. How does that consitute hard? It was, because trash was in bucketfull and getting back to the boss and getting every 40 raiders buffed and ready took forever. Most vanilla raiders only saw MC and ZG in the whole vanilla. How is that for difference?
    I do not believe I ever said I hated TB, there is another blogger i do not care for, he is mentioned, but not linked to. There is a reason for that.

    and as much as I appreciate the fact that you thought this worthy to link on your twitter, I am not sure what you mean by "where my more sane followers are... a fraction of whom would come here if it was posted on my Youtube page. "

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  28. @tb: I said you do not know what you are talking about, since you have not raided in wrath. I think we can agree on that.

    If you are going to compare raiding in wrath with raiding in vanilla and tbc, i think, you should at least raided in all 3.

    @anon (who posted starting with "Sad really...") Fair enough point. I'll take that with me.

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  29. @king: please read before commenting.

    @anyone I missed: Sorry If I missed you.

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  30. Sadly, you don't quite seem to grasp that you called TB a sad man and made assumptions that you shouldn't because that just should not be part of your argument.
    I personally disagree with TB on Wrath being a bad design, as I see that Wrath is certainly a step forward compared to TBC, my biggest beef tho is the lack of content to raid. If you make hard modes, thats totally alright, just do not make it so that you have to farm the normal mode for months to go into the hard modes and do it again. Make it so that you go into the normal mode, and when you have completed it you can instantly go and do the hard modes if you are able and not bother with the normal mode ever again.
    Right now you cannot do that, because the hard modes require you farm the normal mode, so just tune it so you don't have to and gives us CONTENT, and everything would be fine.

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  31. For my part I must say, Burning Crusade is a better example for good made raids. 25 was a good size. everyone was involved and the content was not superhard to get into. Everyone who had two or three braincells together could get into TK or to lady Vashj. A little bit more effort and you said hello to Archimonde and Illidan. I for my part didn't get to Illidan soon enough, started too late, but hey, I didn't care, had the hell of the time, best ingame time of my life. Raided in a guild with friends and it was a real success to clear T5-content and still doing Karazhan.
    No freaking Hardmodes, Vashj was hard enough, but manageable and no damn farming complete (!) T5 in Hero-isntances. QuelDanas-Items were nice to speed things up, but weren't enough for doing BT or MH. Good balanced stuff there. Anyone complaining BC-content was too hard to get into, well, there was no sign at the door of Karazhan, saying: "Hello you Idiots of the world, enter and carelessly slay all within. We surrender"
    Meaning: If you couldn't manage the content in BC despite trying you were a total prat.
    Harsh, but I mean it. Absolutely.

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  32. Dwism: I see you got your Yoggy hard mode achiev 3 weeks ago. UP TO DATE CONTENT YO!!!1111!!

    In other news, Wrath raiding has been very substantial. Both Vanilla and TBC were better from every point of view that you read on the internet. People who disagree are either
    A) Hoping that people don't see they can't hack TBC encounters and have to be hand fed through Wrath or
    B) Hoping that Blizz doesn't take away Wrath raiding in Cata because they can't hack stuff without the 30% buff.

    This is coming from someone who played in Vanilla and raidied during TBC all the way through to the current raids. I have taken Halion and LK. I have taken Black Temple and it's bretheren.

    Face the facts and start doing research.

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  33. Backpedalling a bit, are we, Dwism? How about TBC raiding? Was that also just "half of the raid not knowing what they were doing"? Most of the so-called hard-mode raiders would probably not even get past Void Reaver trash, not even talking about anyone else. Hell, you wouldn't even get past High King in Gruul's lair if everyone in the raid didn't know what's up. No, let's go even lower, most of the so-called Wrath raiders couldn't have even gotten through heroic Arcratraz.

    Just stop your BSing. Vanilla wasn't the paragon of raiding, TBC was. After raids TBC had to offer, Wrath paled in comparison. Sure, it had some good raids (Ulduar was great, but it didn't require so many nerfs to the normal mode), but it also had the worst raids in the history of the game.

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  34. @aggropina: way to jump the gun on my real posts. This was, a prelude :) My point is... well my point will be, although this is a point ive made in the past, is that what raiders learned in vanilla and especcially in TBC was what helped us in the much harder wrath. Whenever you say to new raiders: "oh this is just like Vajsh with a complex twist", they will look at you with confusion.
    If wrath had been released before TBC, I think peoples oppinion on both would be vastly different.
    @kex: hard mode is hard.
    @anon:

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  35. @Dwism: I see you completly ignored the actual meat of my comment. Care to add your thoughts to that? I see you obviously ignored the multitude of interviews in your blog that state Wrath is easier and does not have as much content as TBC and Vanilla had. Therefore, you did not do your job properly.

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  36. Vanilla 40 mans and TBC 10/25's... THOSE were real raids. THOSE were where the real raiders were. Wrath was the single worst, the SINGLE WORST, that WoW has ever been. I, for one, am glad that they are returning WoW to being challenging. I quit WoW for a few months during Wrath as well because it is/was BORING. B-O-R-I-N-G. So get off your self righteous sparklepony and link me a vid of you clearing AQ40 and Naxx40 in Vanilla, or Sunwell in TBC..... you can't? Then you, sir, have no credibility and I, along with pretty much 90% of the internet, do not give a collective flying care in the world about your opinion. Good day.

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  37. Wrath raids were...what? Harder? I beg your pardon?
    *laugh*
    Some encounters really made my fingers bleed, ok, but the average was really lower than, let's say the Highking in Gruul's Layer. Today you couldn't find 2 Hunters able to kite a Boss or a Mage to tank a boss. They didn't have to do that in Wrath. Most bosses were really easy to learn. Especially in the (theoretically) most challenging Raid ICC. Really boring mechanics for most part of the raid.

    Have done some 25-Hardmodes. Not really hard, you just had to be awake. As I said: Normal mode was trainig mode at the most. Hard mode= real mode. Just don't prank, it was sooooo hard. it wasn't.

    BC was cool and it was done with much mor consideration.

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  38. Mate, you just opened Pandora's box :D
    Maybe I'll spoil the fun, but I get the sensation there's a reason for attacking some very well known blogger: fan reaction. So yes, analizing Wrath may be just a good excuse to see people's reaction when things like instances, gear, LFD, etc get in the spotlight. And by chosing a high target like TotalBiscuit now there'll be a big number of people watching upcoming posts.
    Time will tell.

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  39. We are getting into the pointless arguments now.
    The game should cater to everyone, and it cannot. It tries its best and fails. More people are raiding now, and that is the point, yet blizzard is alienating the hardcore crowd. Every one of the raids is so easy for some that they think its laughable, and some think its just right, some think its very hard and blizzard needs to nerf it. We now got laughable normal modes and easy-for-some hard modes, but its all RELATIVE so stop arguing about how hard the raids are, start arguing about what a nice solution would be that does not waste blizzards time for a raid that only 0.1 percent of WoW's population sees and yet caters to everyone.

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  40. So you say Wrath-content was harder than TK: The Eye Kael'Thas? Apart from THE LICH KING HIMSELF on heroic Mode every other single fucking boss was a joke. Let's compare:

    Vanilla had these absurd need for farming pots, resil-gear (frost for Sarth i.e.) or shadow-pots for Loatheb and that kind of stuff. Naxx classic involved everyone in the raid. Show me at least one god damn video, where 1 of the 40 people in naxx slacked around. You had to have at least AQ40-Gear for Naxx or else you would fail hard.

    TBC:
    Where there's Kael'thas, M'uru the REAL raid-destroyer, Brutallus' crazy dps-race, Lady Vashj and her constant need for nerfs until she became defeatable and Kil'Jaeden himself. Illidan was sort of easy when you had a good caster in good gear for his demon-form whereas the rest of it was easy stuff. SSC, TK and SWP are the best raids in wow so far as well as ulduar from the design-point.

    And what has our beloved wrath to offer? OHWOW NAXX25/10, a complete Joke, an insult to EVERYONE who raided in classic wow. Sarthation was a joke when done without drakes but fun enough, but still not hard when had a DK on him in +3 Drakes Mode. Malygos was a joke. Ulduar hat some really nice stuff but as it stands: Algalon was too easy and there's only Mimiron Hardmode and Yogg Alone in the Darkness that are able to hold up to the TBC-raid-bosses. And then came the joke with ToC, balanced like a 5-man-normalmode Dungeon. Great stuff .. not! And well, we got ICC now for a whole year. I killed Arthas Hardmode with 15% and this is the only boss in this whole goddamn expension that could handle the difficutity of M'uru or Kael'Thas.

    Sorry, Dwism, but you just fail so hard at saying Wrath was good. IT JUST PLAIN WASN'T! Get a life and stop blogging shit when it is YOU that doesn't have a clue.

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  41. Can you hear that rumble in the distance. For sure, it be the great army of Totalbiscuit, loyal one and all, riding to the aid of their Lord and Master on their grand horses and sparkleponies.
    He commandeth they go forth for one amongst us calleth him "Sad". "You shalt smite this retard" he orders and they do his bidding.

    Like the blind leading the blind one by one they strikes out at the offending person. And when all are exhausted, Totalbiscuit surveys the battleground and is pleased.

    Until next time, when he gets them to smite another foe for arguing that black is black, when in fact black is white in the world of Totalbiscuit...

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  42. *tiptoes into the comment thread*

    I almost emailed instead of commenting but then I realised that was a cowardly bastard thing to do.

    I genuinely don't have enough experience of the game to say whether Wrath is a poor expansion compared to the others - but I would also say it made raiding more accessible and, yes, consequently more enjoyable for people like me. When I read about vanilla and tbc raids, yes, they sound like valuable experiences but they also sound like they were designed for a specific type of player in a specific type of guild. Like mass-farming mats for resistance gear, I can't be doing with that. I just want to be able to go into a raid and hit shit hard.

    And in my ignorant way I think Wrath did a decent job of bridging the gap - offering challenge to those seeking challenge (you know, a guild only just killed the LK, heroic 25-man on my realm, I saw the achi) and content for people like me.

    ToC was shite, agreed, but Wrath has been great for me, and I've loved it. I know this makes about 30% of the WoW population despise me for being a noob and a casual (and I am both) but ultimately it's easier to criticise to weakness than celebrate strength - heh, I should know, I've never seen a cheapshot I could let pass.

    To be honest, although I think don't taking potshots at Total Biscuit was the wisest thing you've ever done, I don't think popularity should insulate us from criticism - fair or otherwise.

    There is definitely something of a QQ Culture about raiding in Wrath - but since raiding in Wrath is (apparently) 4 noobs, then of course you *have* to QQ otherwise, gasp, you look like a noob too. I'm certainly looking forward to your series - I think it'll be good to have a balanced perspective on Wrath raiding from a dorf with a lot of experience, which you have, and honestly it's refreshing to see someone who did all that vanilla and tbc hardcore stuff stand up and say "hey, some of this is good too."

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  43. People like you, in responding to TB's publications, sometimes manage to be more entertaining than the real thing - of course, that's completely unintentional.

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  44. hi Dwism, my name is Evlyxx and I have been a raider since the olden days.

    A more detailed version of my thoughts that follow can be found at http://evlyxx.blogspot.com/2010/06/state-of-raiding.html

    Molten Core was current, max level was 60 and people who were not good enough to raid played alongside those that could happily in end game instances like Strat, Scholo and UBRS.

    Then we moved to TBC, raiders followed a progression and Karazhan gave the masses a shot at raiding. There was a defined split between real hard core raiders, raiders and non-raiders.

    Then Wrath came, Naxx was beaten in 3 days, we mocked Blizzard, cheered the hard core and cowered in fear. Within a week we were all pugging Naxx waiting for slower levelling guildies to hit 80. 2 months and all the raiders had cleared Naxx and were bored. Puggers cleared Naxx soon after and for 3 months we were all bored.

    Then Ulduar, it was hard, had hard modes we rejoiced. It was cleared quickly by the hard core, but not 3 days! Raiders cleared it and puggers cried it was too hard!

    4 months pass and we get ToC, we all lol'd at the "design", we lol'd at the bosses and even the troublesome PVP fight became a joke when all realised that to survive you ran and to win you killed their healers. ToGC was too hard for all except the hard core, sure some raiders beat the first boss maybe even the 2nd. Puggers rejoiced and the only way Blizz stopped fast completion was the drip feed of bosses.

    ICC followed 4 months after and a relief it was. We panicked. Would anyone clear this place before the expansion which was expected in April? Stuff was hard again, DPS mattered hard core and raiders alike got their raiding fix again but Blizz cheated and drip fed bosses to us. Within 3 months everyone the players all had their spot in ICC, the hard core got their hard modes, the raiders got the LK and the puggers got 4-6 bosses. Now we still linger in ICC all bored even the puggers who still fail at anything more than 6 bosses are bored.

    Wrath has given us the best WoW ever, it was called Ulduar. Sadly the before Ulduar and after Ulduar sucked. WoW's golden era is currently TBC raiding everyone was happy and the content was there for all to be challenged and rewarded accordingly.

    Now to Totalbiscuit, not being a raider? You need to do your research more boy. He almost cleared Naxx in vanilla, he almost cleared pre-nerf Black Temple in TBC before he became disillusioned and quit pre-Sunwell. In Wrath he got to Yogg when it was current and quit soon after, he missed ToC and returned for ICC and got to Sindragosa before his guild could get no further.

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  45. The biggest "problem" isnt that he is getting called out by fanbois, it is that they are called him out on actual poor research about the guy he attempted to slam..

    Aswell as the fact that he is ignoring comments about his own progress being "lulz relevant" (yogg hardmode 3 wks ago), and not to mention that overall Wrath was easier (5mans "heroics" lol and aoe fest Naxx25/10 etc etc), and more grindy than TBC ever was (TBC had problems but overall was tougher, less forgiving and had more variation)...

    PS, could someone explain to me how you can steal a player? Since afaik a player cannot be forced into a other guild, unless he actually wants to.... ;)

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  46. Well said, Tam.
    I've also loved raiding in Wrath, and don't think that because the challenges have been different they are any less valid. I remember people in my guild complaining about the raids being *too easy* at the start of Wrath.. but at the same time they were unable to kill Thaddius without someone standing in the wrong place, or kill Hodir without half the raid being dead. I really enjoyed the challenges that came with hardmodes and raid achievements. It's been a good expansion for me. I'm also looking forward to seeing what else my grumpy *other dorf half* has to say on the matter :)

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  47. I think there are several problems with anti-Wrath comments. Spot the fallacy here:
    -Raids in Wrath are easy.
    -What about hardmodes?
    -TRUE raids are easy!

    Also, I wonder how can a person who had to do the normal raids 2359823598 times - presumably either because they wiped a lot or they needed to gear up for HCs as they wouldn't be able to do them otherwise - can consider them easy. I respect people who just can't do the normal modes even with 30% buffs as it's important to have fun in the game and respect people who think normals are easy as they are no doubt skilled raiders (at least over average) but am I the only one to notice that these two things do not go together very well?

    After their LK HC kill (I think it was the 0% one), someone from Paragon said they liked Wrath and considered it challenging.

    I'm also not getting any of them "it's bad because it's different" stuff. This seems to be used a lot. I understand it's not easy to get used to change but the change by itself does not make anything easier or more challenging, worse or better. It's just different.

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  48. @tam: I highly doubt anyone in here would believe me, when I say that it was not my intent to have TB send his legions of loyalists my way. But I will say it regardless.
    Besides I doubt they will stay for more than this one visit. I do not write enough post for them to. Besides, using him as an example, was just that, an example. So my prelude, was just to set up some sort of theme for the next posts.

    @loads of anons and others: I do know what content TB cleared. When I say he doesn't know what he is talking about, when comparing old content to new, that is what I mean. He does not know, because he has not played the hard dungeons in wrath. Easy mode, is not clearing content imo, easy mode is seeing content.
    @gwynin: if you want to get into that, go see when I killed LK in HM. But again, that is not really the point.

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  49. It would be like saying: "I watched the original Star Wars and the trailers for the new ones. THe new movies SUCK"
    You may be right, but I really would not listen to you, because you haven't seen the new movies, you have no basis for comparison.

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  50. @Dwism Unless Ive found the wrong character (redux on hellscream-eu right?) on the armory or that we have very different views on what is heroic mode, I truly cannot see that you actually have killed him on heroic mode :)

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  51. Now come on...

    The difference between ICC and ICC-HC was there, no doubt, but don't make it bigger than it is.

    It was not that badass superduperheavyimbahard at all.

    I didn't fail at most oft the ICC25-HMs I saw when I first encountered them and I am not a hardmode 6 days a week raider.

    I think the concept of hardmodes alone is a defeat. In TBC - as I said - there was enough content for players who could not bring in the effort of Paragon etc. Karazhan, TK and SSC were hard, but not unmanageable. There had to be no hardmodes. There was a boss. Defeat it or leave it. No "but i fail, can't i do it in easy mode?"
    No freaking way. Either you killed a boss or you didn't. If you didn't, you had to get better trained, geard or organized. If you didn't want to bring in the effort, well there were enough hard hero instances, group quests etc. and Karazhan, which was not hard at all, at least with a little help from the queldanas npc. Casuals could have fun and weren't discriminated against. I could not see SWP, but id didn't complain like a little crybaby..."uhhhh mama, i want to play with teh big boys, make them crawl on their knees. I WANT TO!!"
    WTF! Have 90% of the WoW-Players mutated into some kind of Eric-Cartman-type of crybaby, who demand that the world gets down to their level?

    I accepted the fact that I could not see SWP. The thing was: There was enough Content below the highest raid tier. In WotLK, exept T X (X= highest raid tier atm) there was...Nothing, nada zip, ZERO..Hero instances? no way, boring before end of 2008...lower tiers? why bother!
    group quests? lol. nothing more to say bout them.

    I think, the really good point TB made and may he said whatever he liked to in all other statements: Make the players to try to be better, not the game to become easier to fit their incompatibility. You can hate/dislike/laugh at him for all he said, up to you and your attitude, but that is a fact, a crucial fact in gameplay generally.

    And that fact is getting out of focus in all genres on all platforms.

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  52. gwynin; thats the one.
    Given the fact that people where moaning about my redoing old content 3 weeks ago, I somehow thought it was apparent that I was a 10 man raider.
    But it is right there.

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  53. @aggropina: Like I said earlier, I like to listen to TB's show and watch his beta runs. They are fun. And he is right about heroic dungeons should be heroic, and that being in a guild is good. Please read the post again, it is right there. My mistake was making this a prelude to the lengthy discussion coming up, instead of just writing one giga-length post explaining it all for once.
    I disagree with the fact that he should be able to cast judgement on the quality of the raids, since he has not completed the raids (this is an opinion, not a jounalistic piece.) Completing raids, are now, about completing them in the hard modes.
    This is something, a lot of people refuse to deal with.
    This post wasn't really meant to be about TB, but the culture he - to me- represent: whining about stuff you have not done, and calling it easy.
    Wrath hard content is not easy, it is far more complex than anything we have seen before, demanding more of each raider, than raids have ever done before.
    Is the forced "complete easy mode first" good? no.
    Is the forced gating system good? no.
    Is the time they released content good? no.
    is the final dungeon in this expansion good (halion)? HELL no.

    Is wraths raids, as a whole, better than TBC and Vanilla? Yes.

    That is the point I will explain, in full in posts that are not the prelude.

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  54. For now, I think i'll put the follow ups on hold until posters who do not care what I write, are gone.

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  55. Oh boy, you have gone and done it now. TB IS a real raider. He raided extensively in Vanilla, BC AND wrath. He is only not raiding right now because of the quality of the content, and I agree with him. And I AM a real raider btw, 11/12 heroic ICC 25 with LK going down this week on hardmode. It seems that you really dont know what you are talking about and did almost no research on TB and his raiding experience.

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  56. You say "People who do not know what the Fekk they are talking about, moan about stuff to make themselves popular"

    This is totally not true of TB.
    The reason he is popular is because he does not suck at what he does and makes an huge amount of effort to make his Pods/Vid's not suck.

    So you looked at his armory, big deal. I've not done any hard modes in ICC. That's cos its boring as hell. Does not make you "suck" or any less of a raider. Hell, I'd consider anyone who did ANY bosses in Sunwell a raider.

    It is most certainly not about what you have done in the game, its about attitude and how you approach it.

    I'd also add, that TB, has been popular for a very long time. I have listened to him over the years (As with many other pods, ie the Instance etc) and Blue Plz and the Vids have been at the same level of accuracy and cynical that TB currently has. What you hear and see now, has always been the same, just more people are watching.

    I think your quote of "People who do not know what the Fekk they are talking about, moan about stuff to make themselves popular" applies to yourself. Not TB.

    I bid you good day sir.

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  57. "he'd send his army of followers to a forum/blog to attack the author"

    Don't be on the internet if you can't take criticism / discussion.

    Read a book, they have no comments sections at the end.

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  58. Hey Dwism,
    I realize I am somewhat late to the party, but then I am not looking to join it, so. I agree with what you said about the game having become better overall, as a raider that has played and raided since wow launch i would certainly say the same while i have my share of 'veteran grudges' about the current loot mentality especially among some other things. looking forward by looking back is always a good thing to do and i look forward to your next posts.

    i don't read the blogs you mentioned, so i can't comment on that. i do certainly agree however that a lot of wow whining is an uninformed one and even those among us that have a certain degree of experience and insight, will only always see half of the picture which is a player's pov vs. developer's pov.

    oh and before anyone accuses me - none of your anons here come from Rent-a-Troll© ! ;)

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  59. @anon: that sounded so cool. You must be really cool to dismiss everything written, and say a catchy phrase like that.
    @syl: no I think this is something new. A stampede of sorts.
    I think syl, that you will agree with the next instalments too. A prelude is just that: A description of a problem and the conclusion, all the links from summary to conclusion is to come.
    Maybe I should have called it a synopsis instead of a prelude.

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  60. 1. followers =/= readers. here's a reader who doesn't "follow" dwism. doesn't mean I don't read the posts as they come out and enjoy them.
    1.a "Twilight" has a huge, often rabid following. it still sucks - bad writing, bad stale story, flat characters. popularity=/=superior quality

    2. so called "real raiders" sound more and more like spoiled babies used to illusion of exclusivity who all of a sudden see everyone around them reach the same exclusivity, so they don't want to play anymore because its only fun to play with something - doesn't matter how good it actually is - its only fun if its exclusive.

    3. Relevant content, lawl. remember people still clearing Kara and struggling with Nightbane at the end of BC? remember people farming ZA in their BT gear, to get the mounts before those were removed, steamrolling the content, while those of use in appropriate gear struggled to make the timer? Remember people still progressing through Mg, Gruul, CCT and TK, even though that haven't been so-called "current tier of raiding" in a while? the main thing that changed about wrath is that everyone now has opportunity to steamroll content, so everyone gets to see latest raids.

    I was one of the 2 hunters kiting on High king and honestly? wasn't that hard. annoying when I was chain polied, but not hard at all. Chain trapping wasn't much harder then tranquilizing shambling horrors. LoS trapping casters was fun, but it was by no means hard, since mostly it just involved other people not touching your trap target.

    I raided in BC and I raided in Wrath, and personally, I prefer wrath model. Time consuming for no good reason (lawl, resist gear grinding) =/= more challenging. BC had its own time released content, as did vanilla if I've been reading correctly. it was just subtler.

    As for TB? I listened to the podcasts and I was not impressed. sorry. The voice is lovely, but the content? whine whine whine. I can whine on my own, thank you very much.

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  61. So... how about giving us next part in this series?

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  62. Writers block!!

    It's coming later, hopefully today. I am just trying to figure out how to best present it. So far it's mostly ranting in overdrive, to an extend where I am having a hard time figuring out where I am going with it :D
    It is, after all, also a summary of my entire wow-career.

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  63. Dwism

    I agree with you mate and all I can say is let the haters hate. There will always be people that are consistantly negative in wow because it fits with the angsty nihilism that so many wow players wallow in.

    N.B. I recently listened to TB and I must say that as a Scot I thought he sounded like a prick. :-) Edinburgh accent FTW

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